[OFFICIAL W:ET] Discussion new rating method

[Shownie]

Please tell me, where is it written that rating = skill?

Please tell me where I wrote that rating equals skill?

It is quite obvious that most kids (yes I say kids) thinks they are skilled because they are in top 10. I don't know what you think of it, but that is what I know! I ain't saying everyone does have that thinking, but many does.

Never mind.. So according to you, what does rate show now? And even better, WHAT SHOULD IT SHOW?!

[Le_Furet]

Best is a complete and balanced calcul.


Components (+ : bonus ; - : malus) :

+ Kills x0,7
+ [(Hits x2) / Average players in the session]
+ 20% of headshots
+ 10% of Medic XP + Engineer XP + Field ops XP
+ 35% of Light weapons XP
+ 15% of Battlesens XP
+ 5% of damage given
- [(Deaths / 4) + (Damages received / 20

TOTAL Rounded to the superior whole (sry for translate)



Example (random good round) :

150 kills x 0,7 = 105
[(500 x2) hits / 40 Average players in the session] = 25
15% of 250 headshots = 37,5
10% of 600 = 60
35% of 300 = 105
20% of 40 = 8
0,2% of 20 000 = 40
[(40 deaths / 4) + (8 000 damages received / 500)] = (10 + 16) = 26

TOTAL = 354,5, rounded : 355.

[Omnipotent]

Well the idea sounds great it truly does, but it will aggravate even more the difference between the host clan that doesn't rate and the high skilled raters that come there to play. It has, and it is, been a problem for years that "fraggers" don't heal but save the bar for them self, let it be adrenaline or just to able to heal them self. This creates the dislike between the server admins and the raters, which has included many times for bans, kicks, gibs you name it. For now there has been at least for small reason for these so called "fraggers" to heal now and then, but if you cut, for instance, like le_furet suggested 10% no fragger would bother to trow a single med pack if they are rating. The original idea about the limit of med pack xp you can get per minute would be much better. It only leaves the question what is the right limit that it should be, 10, 20? I have no idea to be honest.

Another thing how to limit cov ops whoring since currently it is clearly the most efficient method to get high rate (like 24) in just a matter of days, look for ETc|Dra|G|on for instance. Would the right limit be 2 or 3 suits per minute? Even so it would leave the problem that it still allows it in a small scale people would just count when they can take a new one.So question is how to limit it in a right way? After all are we going to the discussion that these changes will make it so that one can only rate efficiently by using one class, medic.

Well these are just couple points that came to my mind at the start

[Spl@$h~]

10 -20 xp per min is too much as limit , if we choose to include those XP , it should be limited at 3-5 xp maxi per min ( 1 revive or 3 med packs)
For unis it should be the same , 1 unis per min , engineer etc limited too.
if you play normally and help teammates by healing them or doing your job as engi/cvops , you will get a part of xp counted,never mind which class you play so thats balanced.

You can not choose to count engi XP and not count med/fops or cvops.

It's a way to avoid xp whoring , and make everyone happy because everything count , and get advanced stats andeven K/D ratio for the one who likes it.

but the goal is to get a better ranking system than the one we already have , a different system more based on kills /deaths /hs /damages .

[Le_Furet]

10 -20 xp per min is too much as limit , if we choose to include those XP , it should be limited at 3-5 xp maxi per min ( 1 revive or 3 med packs)
For unis it should be the same , 1 unis per min , engineer etc limited too.
if you play normally and help teammates by healing them or doing your job as engi/cvops , you will get a part of xp counted,never mind which class you play so thats balanced.

You can not choose to count engi XP and not count med/fops or cvops.

It's a way to avoid xp whoring , and make everyone happy because everything count , and get advanced stats andeven K/D ratio for the one who likes it.

but the goal is to get a better ranking system than the one we already have , a different system more based on kills /deaths /hs /damages .

Dude here is your answer....

Best is a complete and balanced calcul.


Components (+ : bonus ; - : malus) :

+ Kills x0,7
+ [(Hits x2) / Average players in the session]
+ 20% of headshots
+ 10% of Medic XP + Engineer XP + Field ops XP
+ 35% of Light weapons XP
+ 15% of Battlesens XP
+ 5% of damage given
- [(Deaths / 4) + (Damages received / 20

TOTAL Rounded to the superior whole (sry for translate)



Example (random good round) :

150 kills x 0,7 = 105
[(500 x2) hits / 40 Average players in the session] = 25
15% of 250 headshots = 37,5
10% of 600 = 60
35% of 300 = 105
20% of 40 = 8
0,2% of 20 000 = 40
[(40 deaths / 4) + (8 000 damages received / 500)] = (10 + 16) = 26

TOTAL = 354,5, rounded : 355.

[giriel]

Problem with your approach Le_furet is that some servers don't start with their xp at zero (I think at franceclan for example).
Those players would have an unfair advantage then.

Saving all the statistics within the database isn't feasible yet so we can't just use the differences either.

Good suggestion though, we could use some more like that

[Le_Furet]

Problem with your approach Le_furet is that some servers don't start with their xp at zero (I think at franceclan for example).
Those players would have an unfair advantage then.

Don't start with their xp at zero? (Que veux-tu dire exactement? )

[Scarhand]

Rating is the attempted calculated numerical equivalent to skill, is it not? Skill in ET is more than just aim. Skill is being able to accomplish something the best. More than just aim, it takes tactics, and it takes a wholistic view, building a mental model of what is happening at all times, and changing tactics, strategies, classes, and targets accordingly. ET is not a fragging game, it is a team-oriented objective-based game. For those who are saying that rating should be more/only frag based, then it becomes less descriptive of skill. Fragger only system discourages teamplay and may negatively impact this objective based game as a whole.
However, there is a reason that people say it should be more frag based. Some people take pride in fragging ability, and want to know it and compare it to other players. There is not really any current system for fragging ability being tracked, and it would greatly help trackbase become a preferred tracker system.

My suggestion is this:
Paul stated in the opening post, the two systems will run at the same time. This means that you can have XP-based (frags and class based operations), and also have a frag only based rating, which will most likely satisfy 99% of the people here. Contemplating it for a good long time only furthers my support for this dual rating system.

For the XP-based system, I think it is fine as the current tracker settings go. No need to demote certain classes. The system feels balanced class-wise, and while others may say its not, they will vary in which is unbalanced and may base it off of their play style. System is fine as is I think. Abnormal XP gains (large, and large relative to player) should be logged I think though, but not limited.

As for the frag based system:
#kills + ((HS / Damage Given) * x) - (damage recieved / x) ---- Strike that, read my new formula in my edit below, this one is terrible. ----
x is any static number used to balance the value with other values. Basically kills value, + hs ratio value, minus a small portion of damage received. Damage received should not be too hurtful though, a negative rating should be rare.
Haven't put much thought into it yet, just made it off the top of my head in a few seconds, so feel free to bash this quick calculation, or improve it.
Edit: Ahh, forgot to include accuracy. Maybe I'll work on this formula sometime and come up with something decent. Oh, and maybe team damage is doubled and then deducted from your damage.

---

Edit 2: Still haven't gotten much time to think about the fragging formula, but these are my new ideas:

Damage As Basis
Someone gets a couple headshots on someone, and someone steals the kill with a single bullet to the back. Does that make them skilled? No. Damage, is the real measure of frag power, not kills.

Dodging and avoiding damage also takes skill. Striking teamates is extremely sloppy and reckless and is the opposite of skillful.

However, it is more than just doing high damage. The speed and efficiency of the kill must also be considered, meaning high acc and headshots also makes you much more skilled.
However, this efficiency also leads to more kills (more damage) and less damage received, and is already partially considered through damage.
But if you shoot someone in the back from a distance with all body shots and kill them before the shoot you, you get about just as much credit as multiple headies in the back of the head from a distance, because you do their HP bar in damage either way and get no damage received if they don't shoot back, so it needs to be considered still in this scenario, but in most cases it also leads to more rating through more damage, because it leads to dying less, and more ammo in clip to continue damaging.

Until I get time for additional thought into this, I give this:

(Damage_Given + (Damage_Given * (HS / Hits) * (Hits / Shots)) - ((.5 * Damage_Recieved) + (2 * Team_Damage))

---

A dual system would work great, so fraggers can point out their rating with each other and xp gainers can be the envy of scrim teams worldwide. Two types of ratings has no downside other than having to track both.

[TerrorTom]

Yup. A frag based system without including xp in the formular like Scarhands idea sounds best.
All other ways would be the same like the existing system only a little bit different.

[Scarhand]

Amendment to my frag rate formula.

As it was, team damage was a factor. This gives players who play on team-damage enabled servers a disadvantage from those who don't. This is removed.
1/2 damage received is being changed to damage_received / damage_given so it isn't as harsh toward aggressive playing strategy rather than camping style.

(Damage_Given * (HS / Hits) * (Hits / Shots))
This needs major revamp because it favors playing time.
As it was, it favored longer play times, as the Hs and acc bonuses would be greater for players who played longer than players with less time and equal aim.
If it was static (eg. (X * (HS / Hits) * (Hits / Shots)) ) then it would be worse because it would favor players with shorter play times. Imagine two players with equal skill who do equally well. Numbers for demonstration only, I know they aren't realistic: Player 1 plays 2 mins and gets 200 dmg with static aim bonus of 100, Player 2 plays 1 minute with 100 dmg and aim bonus of 100. Player 1 would only get 1.5 rate while player 2 gets 2 rate, because player 2 played shorter.
Both static and dmg dependent are skewed by playing time, so aim bonus must be dependent on time. This fixes the playing time issue.
Changed to : ((Damage_Given/Time_Played) * (HS / Hits) * (Hits / Shots)) I may have to add a +x or *x for balancing purposes, but ill input realistic numbers another time.

New formula:
(Damage_Given + ((Damage_Given / Time_Played) * (HS / Hits) * (Hits / Shots))) - (Damage_Recieved / Damage_Given )

Keep in mind that I recommend you use two rating systems at the same time, XP based and frag based. It may take a lot of work, but it would be awesome to have a dual-rating system.

Edit: Oh, and Paul, does the ability to track stats mean we will have an average stats page for players now?