[OFFICIAL W:ET] Discussion new rating method

[giriel]

darn testforecho
Looks great and logical in my opinion, will change it now.
If any of you guys still want to change something do tell ! This is easily done.

Am looking at the possibilities for the xp calculation/team.

[orDian]

From Testforecho (((headshots*2 + hits) / 8) + kills) * 2.5 // roughly 5 points per kill

140hp with helmet
3 headshots
3*2+3 = 9
9/8+1 = 2.125
2.125*2.5 = 5,3125

8 body hits
0*2+8 = 8
8/8+1 = 2
2*2.5 = 5

Not rewarded for even aiming at the head.

120hp with helmet
3 headshots
3*2+3 = 9
9/8+1 = 2.125
2.125*2.5 = 5,3125

7 body hits
0*2+7 = 7
7/8+1 = 1,875
1,875*2.5 = 4,6875

A bit rewarded for making headshots.

156hp with helmet
3 headshots 1 body hit
3*2 + 4 = 10
10/8 + 1 = 2.25
2.25 * 2 = 5,625

9 body hits
0*2 + 9 = 9
9/8+1 = 2.125
2.125*2.5 = 5,3125

Dont feel like bashing some heads.

[Scarhand]

With a sten, the hs is still worse than all bodyshots because sten hs damage ratio to bs damage ratio is 3.57. That half point adds up as the number of fights goes up; it might be significant.

What about knife kills? Backstabs= less hits. Maybe a miniscule thing for knife kills?

[giriel]

If you guys think it is important we can split up the weapons and save them separately.
I must say Ordian has a point as well, we'll keep it open for now then.

Some results I gathered already (is kinda hard because it gets deleted after every map )
OldXp eng+bat kills deaths hits head heav revives
10 minutes fastshooting: 31279 6240 33 7 284 41 1 0 => 26 (260 xp) (44/7 eventually)
25 minutes fastshooting: 31749 6326 89 29 765 164 0 0 => 20.6 (515 xp) (93/30 eventually)
30 minutes fastshooting: 32302 1969 102 33 804 176 0 8 => 23.2 (696 xp) new formula

[testforecho]

@orDian:
For me (I can't read other people's minds) the hits and hs thing was made as a way to figure out damage given
And this, because kills can be 'fragsteals' so I wanted in my formula to reward players who kill enemies having full hp, and not just finishing their team mates work.
It wasn't meant (by me, don't know others again) as a 'headshot score', actually I wouldn't even have put hs in my formula if jaymod damage wasn't bugged in the first place.

So, from my point of view, I can answer to your 'Dont feel like bashing some heads' this way:
1. For me, that is just a way to calculate damage given, since awarding points for headshots just because 'they are skilled' makes no sense.
2. In a game you make a hundred kills, not one. So you talk about 3hs, but you cannot make 3hs for 100 kills not even if you cheat. It's the average that counts, and that average should show your damage given (hence the number 8, I considered an average of 1hs and 6 bodyshots. 1*2+6 = 8)

@Scarhand:
as it is now sten would give more points, but I'm elaborating the formula to take care of adrenaline because I discovered a huge flaw in that case

@Giriel:
Checking those stats, and trying to balance adrenaline servers atm. Separate weapon table would be cool, but if it's too much work, then let's see what we can think of

[giriel]

yea adrenaline isn't considered at the moment.
I have discussed the issue with Paul and he has allowed me to use more space in the database !

What I stored at the moment : engibattlexp - kills - deaths - hits - headshots - kills_h - revives. Now next to this you are free to add around 10 new things, that you can decide. So it is possible to split up the weapons now!

So tell me what you want to see stored.

[testforecho]

hmm, as regards that adrenaline thing, imho there is no way out, because adrenaline halves damage (but not damage from headshots).

That means in practice that if you play in a server with adren, you need always more hits to kill somebody, so you will always get more points.
Of course, your points are then compared to all the other players in the server, so the effect is not so noticeable because you get more, they get more too, but it is an unbalance that could lead to an advantage for some servers.

The only solution I can think of is counting only damage coming from hs, orDian would be happy
let me think a bit, now that I saw your last post. What do you think about this adrenaline problem?

[giriel]

Well I am biased in that matter since I find adrenaline a nuisance.
So I would like to "punish" it's usage by for example multiplying that factor 8 with (#adren shots / (playtime*0.5)) because then you surely are abusing that, playtime in minutes then. (a minimum of 1 is required, don't want to go below 8).
As such you still can use adrenaline without a problem, only not too often.

[testforecho]

Well I am biased in that matter since I find adrenaline a nuisance.
So I would like to "punish" it's usage by for example multiplying that factor 8 with (#adren shots / (playtime*0.5)) because then you surely are abusing that, playtime in minutes then. (a minimum of 1 is required, don't want to go below 8).
As such you still can use adrenaline without a problem, only not too often.

hehe, didn't know you can count adren shots, but take into account that in some servers with fast charge almost all fights are with adrenaline, so it's more a feature than an advantage there.

It's obvious that a player who gives more hs has an advantage with adren. Since all bodyshots make half the damage, who gives more hs makes damage proportionally faster (in comparison with the average players) in servers with adre on, than in servers with adre off

And he can also kill more easily, since if you give damage faster, well, you finish your enemy faster. So removing damage, to leave only kills, won't make a change either, adren servers would still give an advantage to people who make more hs

[Scarhand]

For servers who do enable adren and who also enable the health effect for it, it could mess up the hit based calculations. However, the solution is not punishing the adren users, who are giving the other players the advantage of more hits. I think you are being biased toward it. We can't change the rating to account for adren because that only adds bias toward servers with it enabled, and we don't want to have some servers better for rating than others. Don't add it to the formula, or we will see more raters playing on specific servers than before. I don't really see any way to fix it other than damage-based calculations, and that is if it truly halves damage given when attacking that player.

Since giriel said he can start using individual weapons, maybe we could make damage-based calculations work. Say all light weapons use their damage. Then hvy or glitched-damaged weapons can be like kills*115 to decide their damage (115 being the lowest full-HP level possible). Of course the only problem with that is that you get full damage for a kill steal with them, but at least you are only getting a full HP bar of damage rather than thousands with a panzer. It wont count partial damage for them or full damage if there are high medic numbers, but hopefully that will counteract the full damage from wounded players; I don't know if that is safe enough to do though, it seems very unreliable for heavy weapons.

Also hoping for team-based calculations soon.