[OFFICIAL W:ET] Discussion new rating method

[Scarhand]

The whole point of TB is rating, so it is imperative to try to get it to be as accurate as possible, not disregard things even if miniscule. More and more servers will use the system now that it is fully implemented, and I have been trying to get more servers to, so the discussion should always be open to make the system more accurate.

(((headshots + hits) / 5) + kills) *1.5 + engixp + battlesense + revives*4

Testorecho's points:
1. As I brought up, hs worsens rating rather than improves it. Afaik, the sten has the greatest difference in hs and bs damage. Without helmet, the ratio of hs damage to bs damage is 25/7 or about 3.57 times as much, and drains health that much faster but only has twice as much rate per hit. It may be a bit miniscule, but once kills start adding up, the effect will make a difference. Because it drains health up to 3.57 times as much, the point value per person needs to be raised more than that to justify including headshots at all. Probably (hs*3+hits)

2. I'm not sure about how much battle sense is gained on average during a match, so I can't really comment on if it is overly strong or not.

To bring up some questions. How does the hit counter work in regards to a weapon such as a flamethrower? Doesn't jaymod count hits on downed/revivable players, I know NQ does not.

Really, I don't have a lot of problems with the system. The developers did a good job making it. It isn't as easy to cheat for rate like doing +attack in spawn with packs and afk rating. Good work developers!

[testforecho]

The whole thing about hits and hs was brought up because in jaymod (very common mod for rating) damage given and received is not reliable (gives full weapon damage instead of enemy hp, for example with arty, panzerfaust, etc. unlike etpro)

So it was an attempt to guess the damage given from hits and hs, and I agree that it should be made on a per-weapon basis, even though there are some issues (adren vs non adren, akimbos vs single pistol) that can't be solved, for example if I kill someone with single pistol I could be pro, with akimbos, well...

Custom factors for every weapon could make it more realistic, or we could tell jaybird to fix that freaking damage nonsense and not rate all servers with those bugged jaymod versions (not a good idea)


- As regards battle sense, it gives you 8xp every 45 seconds (45000 milliseconds in et source code, wrongly put as 30 seconds in et manual) if you killed someone and received some damage (also there are less points for other situations)
8 xp in 45 seconds is 10.7 in 1 minute, that could be half the ppm for someone with 20ppm, so it used to be a very important factor and we should ask ourselves if we want a clone of the old system (but more resource-hungry) or something really different.

I don't know if surviving for 45 seconds is skill, I can kill someone (and receive damage), then I go camp till the 45 seconds are over, and there I have an extra 8 points... or I can keep attacking and kill another one and die... too bad... 2 kills but way less points (do the maths and see!)
That's why I said remove it or reduce it a lot and when I say a lot, I mean around 10 times smaller. 8 points just for doing 'nothing' after you kill is a huge amount


- As regards the flamer, that's a heavy weapon, so it's counted in heavy weapons xp only if you kill and not if you damage. It can stay as it is imho

- For the hits, on etpro for sure you 'hit' only if your enemy is alive, and jaymod is like that I think, anyway it's fairly easy to check.

so maybe a thing like:
weaponfactor = 1.5 or so, changes with weapon to reflect headshot/bodyshot damage
(((headshots*weaponfactor + hits) / 5) + kills) + engixp + revives*4 + battlesense*0.15 <<-- remove that battlesense bs, or keep it with some really low factor

[Belo]

Might be off topic but ..
How come it ain't working for FA Jay1?

[Sapientia]

was thinking the same dude that server has to be the most popular server and it doesnt have it. :<

[giriel]

We don't make those decisions ourselves, that's up to the server owners

For the suggestions:
- at the moment hits are counted for every weapon, but indeed flamer was a problem so that weapon has it's hits reduced .
- the kills are only the light weapons.

The suggestions seem reasonable to me, if we can find a good compromise for the factor/weapon I will add it.
So we need :
- sten
- mp40 / thompson
- garand / k43-rifle
- luger, colt
- fg42

[testforecho]

So we need :
- sten
- mp40 / thompson
- garand / k43-rifle
- luger, colt
- fg42

luger and colt deal the same damage per bullet as mp40 and thompson

- standard ET damage for bodyshots (doesn't take into account damage falloff for long range fights, helmet protection, adrenaline):
luger/colt/mp40/thompson: 18hp
sten: 14
fg42: 15
eng. rifle: 34

(Sniper deals more damage but you can't see from /weaponstats if it's sniper or engi rifle unless I'm totally mistaken. Same for fg42.)

Headshot is 2*bodyshot, but if it's below 50 then it's forced to 50. So it's 50 for every weapon, but for engi rifle is 68

((hits-hs)*bodyshotdamage + hs*headshotdamage)*0.01 would do the trick (1 point for 100hp of damage, 1.5 if you kill a medic)

p.s.
please think about that battle sense stuff I said, imho that's an easier and more important fix than this, of course I cannot force anything on you guys

[Scarhand]

Also forgot to mention, damage is reduced with distance, as well as hs damage to bs damage being drastically reduced:

Range 	Bodyshot 	Headshot (w/ helmet) 	Headshot (w/o helmet)
Close 	18 	40 	50
Medium 	9-18 	10-40 	10-50
Far 	9 	10 	10

MP40 for example. But if you really are using damages for the formula like the one testforecho just posted, it shouldn't be an issue.

Battle sense rules are as follows (if testforecho is right about the timing thing):
2 XP if you inflict damage on enemies within 45 seconds
5 XP if you inflict and receive damage within 45 seconds
8 XP if you kill and receive damage within 45 seconds

Obviously the 8xp is most likely, but you have to consider that you will sometimes receive less and not always see action. You have to consider that surviving does take skill, but the punishment is already given (actually depending on the maps spawntimes and locations). But say we use 8 every time, because we don't know how it turns out always, that is 40 possible xp gains for a 30min map, 8*40 is 320 per map. Say someone got all body shots the whole map, that takes about 8 per kill. If using hits to calculate, that battle sense gain is equal to about 40 kills! Far too much. It does need to be reduced.

[giriel]

good then it will be done, tomorrow I will start with updating it all

[testforecho]

- as regards battle sense seconds, in et source code it says 45000 milliseconds (45 sec) if jaymod changed that I can't say, don't think so, but it should be easily checked if you want I'll check, but I think we can safely assume they left it as it was.

- for damage: yes there is damage falloff, but you cannot calculate the distance of the hits, remember it's like /weaponstats. Damage falloff starts from 1500 units (a medium/close range fight is about 300units). I think we can assume that damage is full in most fights.

- Helmet reduces damage by 20% (80% of original damage, so from 50hp to 40) but again we don't know from weaponstats, let's assume helmet is off, to please headshot lovers and make it easier :p

Talking about battle sense, in my opinion that bonus should be at most equal to half a kill, otherwise it's not just a bonus, waiting cannot count more than fragging an enemy

-------------------------
to summarize:
1. calculate damage from hits and hs
I don't wanna write a novel to say my reasons, since my posts are already so long but considered that rifle is rarely used, and sten is harder to use than mp40 due to overheating, so its lower damage would penalize it, we don't really need a weapon table, but using a 'standard' 18hp for bodyshot and 50 for hs would be realistic enough, and easy to implement. Or make a table if we want to be more precise.
damage = (hits-hs)*18 + hs*50

now we have:
damage, kills, xp (engi, revive, heavy weapons, battle sense)

the point is now, how to balance?
some real data would be useful here, like some good rater kindly doing /weaponstats before and at the end of a good match, I ain't no superstar so I cannot use my stats, low+ max or Giriel can take them from the database I don't know

Let's estimate how much points per minute you generally get from these things, and balance them according to the skill actually needed to achieve them. Atm up to 10 ppm for battle sense is way too high. Surviving takes skill only if you are fighting, not if you play more defensively to get the points for battle sense after a fight.

[Spl@$h~]

Damn , you guys are amazing thanks again for your participation
Always though it was 30 secs for battle sense and never thought that ET was taking distance into account for damages values