question

[epsi]

I have however meant to talk to paul on xfire about the clearly broken rating formula (FA#2 is best for rate, which means that TB is not adjusting ppm vs average player rating in the match appropiately).

+1 for that.

I see ppl. with 27 rate doing 13/14 ppm, a other guy with a rating of ~ 13 does even more ppm in that session and the 27-rated guy still gets a big plus while the average rating is maybe ~ 11. Something wrong there.

[Dragonji]

I have however meant to talk to paul on xfire about the clearly broken rating formula (FA#2 is best for rate, which means that TB is not adjusting ppm vs average player rating in the match appropiately).

Hmm, I started wondering about this too after reading your post, maybe some time we will get a big thread about the whole rating system, how it works, how you can get "+" on rating when your PPM is 13-15 while the rating is 26 or higher etc.

[epsi]

i only see this on the US servers tbh. While its fking hard to get a good rating on some other servers, even when there are not only ppl. with rating < 16 playing / average rating is always min. 10. Rly strange and needs to get fixed asap.

[Neon]

Hmm, I started wondering about this too after reading your post, maybe some time we will get a big thread about the whole rating system, how it works, how you can get "+" on rating when your PPM is 13-15 while the rating is 26 or higher etc.

Well, while the fact that you can get a + rate with a very low PPM is annoying, THAT is not actually the problem and is evidence that the rating system is working to an extent.

I am not going to pretend I know what the formula is, or exactly how it works. However, my understanding of it is that you get +ppm for beating the ppm of other players in the round, and this is adjusted by the average rate of the other players in comparison to yours. What this should mean is any increase in PPM from playing on a server full of newbies is EXACTLY negated. I.e. if you get 130% normal ppm there, the rate adjustment will in effect mean you are calculated as having 100% normal ppm. What I think the issue is, is that the rate adjustment goes too far - playing on a high rate server adjusts it up too much, and on a low rate server down too much. This means if those with highest rate play on the same server, it becomes the only place you can rate (and hence why they all play there). It is hard for me to comment with hard numbers since I do not know the system, but if one server is better to rate on than any others, then the system is clearly not equating properly.

[Paul]

Formula is way mroe simple as people thing, basicly it works like:
- ( Your rate/Average Rate ) * Average PPM = Target PPM, below that you get -, above it you get +

What should be changed is the fact that for your calculation the averages should be taken without yourself.

[epsi]

but its a fakt that you can never ever get so high rated like the top rated ppl. which play on the US Servers. Why?!

[Neon]

Well, looking at the formula quickly it seems ok, as it simply means you need a ppm proportionately higher than the average as your rate is above average. So, there is no problem there. I also agree that the averages shouldn't include yourself, otherwise the forumlae counts you as competing against yourself .

This wouldn't cause the problems though, so I guess i'll have to think what it actually is, because it is CERTAINLY much easier to rate on FA#2. Perhaps it is simply because there are lots of terrible players there with a reasonably high rate, or that it is the raters taking advantage of a better ping than everyone else on the server.

Still, thats not a problem with TB, so my bad, although the rate formula should be changed to:

Target PPM = ( Your rate / ((SUM Counted Rates - Your Rate) / # Counted Players-1)) * ((SUM Counted PPM - Your PPM) / # Counted Players-1) = Target PPM

i.e. (Your rate / Average Rate of counted players excluding you) * Average PPM of counted players excluding you = Target PPM

A counted player, being a player who was rated that round.

Anyway, Thanks paul.

[Neon]

Well, I did a little look with the detailed round viewer (which I didn't even know was there before) to compare some of my rounds to aspirin's (just because he is top atm, and is on FA#2 exclusively).

He doesn't have much info, but taking it from his and my last 5 rated rounds the average rate across all prated players in rounds is pretty much identical; 9.556 for asp and 9.554 for me, which I found surprising. However the average PPM across all players in the rounds was 8.1 for me but only 6.442 for him i.e. the average ppm of players I play with is 25.7% higher than aspirin. Meaning the players I am playing with are in the long term, as good as those Aspirin is playing, but in the actual rounds I play against them on Jay#3, they do better.

Now you could say that Aspirin is a good player, so does so well he keeps other players rate down better than I. Well, that doesn't make sense, since you would expect his ppm to be much higher, and often, but its not. So, if thats not it then another factor is making players of similar rate to which I play, do worse on FA#2. Now, I don't want to sound like a douche here, but the only factor that I know effects almost everyone apart (aspirin being in that select few) from a select few on Jay#2 is the lag. It is certainly probable that if you are not lagging, you have an unfair advantage over laggers. Likewise, better players are also probably better able to cope with lag even if they do have it, adding another way in which they are more skilled than the average player.

If you can think of anything else that could cause this difference in ppm, go ahead. However, to me it looks like perhaps your ping in relation to average ping should be taken into account.

[Shagileo]

The rate formula has been described several times. Your positive or downwards rating also heavily depends on your top ten maps
If you have high rating on a certain map, you need to keep improving or you will get negative rating

[daredevil]

Apspirin players on US server and you play on Euro server. Both chooses the server according to there pings.

"It is certainly probable that if you are not lagging, you have an unfair advantage over laggers. "

So if I have good PC and internet, I have unfair advantage?? I don't think it's called advantage. It's more like spending the money for better services.

I don't think ping should be considered because if player A is lagging then it's player A fault and not others. Imagine someone with downloading torrent and ping of 800.. then whole avg ping would be messed up. Either fix your ISP, PC, etc. or don't play game. Why to blame it on others?

Where it will stop if we start considering ping? Then next one would say consider PC specs too. So we penalize player having good PC?

I don't know whole maths of rating but one thing I noticed is:
Neon, you got -ve rating when you had lesser PPM against the player who had less rating then you. Example:

http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21231059
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21244449

In Aspirin case, his PPM is always higher then the players he plays against with.
Ex: http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21320570
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21163414