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how is aspirin maintaining his rate when he's inactive for so long?
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=playerinfo&idx=18448
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=playerinfo&idx=1538790
the last link he has been inactive for 50d and still has 27+ rate,
Mind explaining this? and why is his name suddenly gone from the top list but still listed as "Call me god!"
undefetable
9-07-2011, 14:27
yes i was going to post the same question thanks ctrl u posted it his clan member http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=playerinfo&idx=1538790 is inactive from 50 days but he has played today ie 9th july go to his details of the session but still in activity is 50 days morever all his other members are in similar way can Someone from track answer it please
anurag007
9-07-2011, 17:22
it's a good question that mccloud opened and we want answer ;) :P
Thanks for reporting this issue, we'll look into it and notify you when we have further information
Well , he just play every 5 days , 1 map with each names . Dont forget to display all maps ( dont look only the 10 ones listed )
There is no way to keep the same rating more than 3 days , on the 4 th day rating drop a bit and more and more the next days .
Well , he just play every 5 days , 1 map with each names . Dont forget to display all maps ( dont look only the 10 ones listed )
There is no way to keep the same rating more than 3 days , on the 4 th day rating drop a bit and more and more the next days .
I'm not looking at his top ten listed maps, he has been inactive for 49 days up until today he played a map, he didn't lose any rate, and yet he gain some and still is 27+ after those 49 days inactive. when I left ctrl and joined FA my rate was max 28+ and when it hit 7d inactive it was dropping fast, few days ago my current rating name cTRL-MccLoud :< I was locking my sessions and wasn't in the mood for rate, after not rating for about 4/5 days it was dropping even though my name was kept active.
Well there could be a bug , its not the first one , it would have been great to see a screenshot with the 49 days inactive and 27 rating.
Btw there is a last seen bug currently , which means even if you played the whole day and got rating , last seen will not change .
Bug is already reported.
For example check this http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=playerinfo&idx=17612 he played not long ago but tracker shows 7 days of inactivty , technically you shouldn't be at rank 1 .
EDIT: last seen bug here : http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=claninfo&cidx=392
quit rating cos aspirin is haxing/paying tb staff gg
Comon dont be like that , haxing maybe i dont know , paying tb staff , no way .
What you say makes no sense, if you think like that yh you better quit.
Ask Paul for more infos hes the one coding tracker , and the one who knows all the bugs.
Before talking and saying shit,its not because you cant get at top that you have to say BS,by the way aspirin didnt donate.
TB is only there for W ;ET community and doing his possible to improve features.
Please read my last post and check last seen fonction which isnt updated and you should understand why even if it says that aspirin didnt play for 50 days-100days or even 500 days , he still has a high rating.
Many ppl have reported that bug , its not only happening to aspirin , its also happening to servers , there are still bugs to fix .
well.....it's simple
cause i use play lock and color tags
that's why
also u can see i played yesterday so it is not inactive
if i play with only play lock my name will be in list
and 7 days after not rate in TB ur name will be disappear in the list (u know that)
well.....it's simple
also u can see i played yesterday so it is not inactive
yes you played yesterday we know that, but what about the days before? you didn't lose one single rate, remaining 27+ for being inactive for 49 days, you have just recently played under this name, I'm not talking about color tags cause I know how that works (I use it too), that doesn't explain how you havent lost rate when you have been playing with the 2 aspirin names for weeks now
He's always earning somes rate before his rate go down... it's what i see.. :)
i dont know how TB shows map track
i play 1 map for 3 ~4 day
so i play constantly that's why i dont lose rate much
and about 49 days like i said before
i change color tag and unlock play lock after finish map so i can get (+, -) rate
during the game i dont touch my lock and color tag only map is done,, i go to TB and unlock both
hard to say maybe u should try it u will find out
my opinion about ur question
when u do that u get whatever rate but in TB list you are not inactive
caue during the game ur name was playlock and color tag
that my thought i do not exactly
lol seems aspirin has more idea how it works than tb amdins..? but good info anyway
ol seems aspirin has more idea how it works than tb amdins..? but good info anyway
Tell me what you didnt know , in what he posted ? :o
Well thats not new ... but activate/desactivate playlock doesnt mean you can keep rating , and it doesnt explain the last seen bug.
There is nothing to understand there and at first PLAYLOCK fonction is just to disabled your name from rating when you are done to play , to avoir name faking thats all.
It's not possible to do it automatically , and need to be done manually , thats why some use it to avoid a - on all maps ...
Well to anwser at this thread : you got the answer here :
i play 1 map for 3 ~4 day
so i play constantly that's why i dont lose rate much
rofl, aspi have hidden other nicks out of ranking.
discussion about aspi=buguser???
open ur eyes,if he activate all nicks for ranking,he get rank 1 & 2 & 3 & 4.
talk about tb bugs,but dont attack aspirin.
we have smalltalk everyday & play often together for fun.
Honestly I don't think aspirin is actually abusing any bugs to keep his rate for a long time, as such. I have however meant to talk to paul on xfire about the clearly broken rating formula (FA#2 is best for rate, which means that TB is not adjusting ppm vs average player rating in the match appropiately).
It doesnt matter if its abusing a bug or whatever. Its unfair anyways towards other raters who cant use/dont have this bug.
And it dont work, when you change the colors and lock after playing, thats what all the other raters do too :)
I need to look into this, I've actually no idea what's causing it. But to be clear about some thins:
- His rating WILL drop after inactivity, but he just plays on time every time to make sure his rate won't drop
- TB Does not accept money in exchange for services like this, rules are same for everybody and we make no exceptions.
Ok, I did some investigation and found something that approved my idea's, since Aspi's using a certain 'bug' without knowing it his lastrated field was updating (causing not to drop rate due to 'inactivity') but his last seen was not updated. I have now updated some code that should prevent this from happening. Further I've manually updated the lastseen from all Aspi's names, I hope this will be the last time that's needed and we'll see if it updates correctly the next time he's playing :)
I have however meant to talk to paul on xfire about the clearly broken rating formula (FA#2 is best for rate, which means that TB is not adjusting ppm vs average player rating in the match appropiately).
+1 for that.
I see ppl. with 27 rate doing 13/14 ppm, a other guy with a rating of ~ 13 does even more ppm in that session and the 27-rated guy still gets a big plus while the average rating is maybe ~ 11. Something wrong there.
Dragonji
10-07-2011, 18:26
I have however meant to talk to paul on xfire about the clearly broken rating formula (FA#2 is best for rate, which means that TB is not adjusting ppm vs average player rating in the match appropiately).
Hmm, I started wondering about this too after reading your post, maybe some time we will get a big thread about the whole rating system, how it works, how you can get "+" on rating when your PPM is 13-15 while the rating is 26 or higher etc.
i only see this on the US servers tbh. While its fking hard to get a good rating on some other servers, even when there are not only ppl. with rating < 16 playing / average rating is always min. 10. Rly strange and needs to get fixed asap.
Hmm, I started wondering about this too after reading your post, maybe some time we will get a big thread about the whole rating system, how it works, how you can get "+" on rating when your PPM is 13-15 while the rating is 26 or higher etc.
Well, while the fact that you can get a + rate with a very low PPM is annoying, THAT is not actually the problem and is evidence that the rating system is working to an extent.
I am not going to pretend I know what the formula is, or exactly how it works. However, my understanding of it is that you get +ppm for beating the ppm of other players in the round, and this is adjusted by the average rate of the other players in comparison to yours. What this should mean is any increase in PPM from playing on a server full of newbies is EXACTLY negated. I.e. if you get 130% normal ppm there, the rate adjustment will in effect mean you are calculated as having 100% normal ppm. What I think the issue is, is that the rate adjustment goes too far - playing on a high rate server adjusts it up too much, and on a low rate server down too much. This means if those with highest rate play on the same server, it becomes the only place you can rate (and hence why they all play there). It is hard for me to comment with hard numbers since I do not know the system, but if one server is better to rate on than any others, then the system is clearly not equating properly.
Formula is way mroe simple as people thing, basicly it works like:
- ( Your rate/Average Rate ) * Average PPM = Target PPM, below that you get -, above it you get +
What should be changed is the fact that for your calculation the averages should be taken without yourself.
but its a fakt that you can never ever get so high rated like the top rated ppl. which play on the US Servers. Why?!
Well, looking at the formula quickly it seems ok, as it simply means you need a ppm proportionately higher than the average as your rate is above average. So, there is no problem there. I also agree that the averages shouldn't include yourself, otherwise the forumlae counts you as competing against yourself :P.
This wouldn't cause the problems though, so I guess i'll have to think what it actually is, because it is CERTAINLY much easier to rate on FA#2. Perhaps it is simply because there are lots of terrible players there with a reasonably high rate, or that it is the raters taking advantage of a better ping than everyone else on the server.
Still, thats not a problem with TB, so my bad, although the rate formula should be changed to:
Target PPM = ( Your rate / ((SUM Counted Rates - Your Rate) / # Counted Players-1)) * ((SUM Counted PPM - Your PPM) / # Counted Players-1) = Target PPM
i.e. (Your rate / Average Rate of counted players excluding you) * Average PPM of counted players excluding you = Target PPM
A counted player, being a player who was rated that round.
Anyway, Thanks paul.
Well, I did a little look with the detailed round viewer (which I didn't even know was there before) to compare some of my rounds to aspirin's (just because he is top atm, and is on FA#2 exclusively).
He doesn't have much info, but taking it from his and my last 5 rated rounds the average rate across all prated players in rounds is pretty much identical; 9.556 for asp and 9.554 for me, which I found surprising. However the average PPM across all players in the rounds was 8.1 for me but only 6.442 for him i.e. the average ppm of players I play with is 25.7% higher than aspirin. Meaning the players I am playing with are in the long term, as good as those Aspirin is playing, but in the actual rounds I play against them on Jay#3, they do better.
Now you could say that Aspirin is a good player, so does so well he keeps other players rate down better than I. Well, that doesn't make sense, since you would expect his ppm to be much higher, and often, but its not. So, if thats not it then another factor is making players of similar rate to which I play, do worse on FA#2. Now, I don't want to sound like a douche here, but the only factor that I know effects almost everyone apart (aspirin being in that select few) from a select few on Jay#2 is the lag. It is certainly probable that if you are not lagging, you have an unfair advantage over laggers. Likewise, better players are also probably better able to cope with lag even if they do have it, adding another way in which they are more skilled than the average player.
If you can think of anything else that could cause this difference in ppm, go ahead. However, to me it looks like perhaps your ping in relation to average ping should be taken into account.
Shagileo
10-07-2011, 21:17
The rate formula has been described several times. Your positive or downwards rating also heavily depends on your top ten maps
If you have high rating on a certain map, you need to keep improving or you will get negative rating
daredevil
10-07-2011, 22:56
Apspirin players on US server and you play on Euro server. Both chooses the server according to there pings.
"It is certainly probable that if you are not lagging, you have an unfair advantage over laggers. "
So if I have good PC and internet, I have unfair advantage?? I don't think it's called advantage. It's more like spending the money for better services.
I don't think ping should be considered because if player A is lagging then it's player A fault and not others. Imagine someone with downloading torrent and ping of 800.. then whole avg ping would be messed up. Either fix your ISP, PC, etc. or don't play game. Why to blame it on others?
Where it will stop if we start considering ping? Then next one would say consider PC specs too. So we penalize player having good PC?
I don't know whole maths of rating but one thing I noticed is:
Neon, you got -ve rating when you had lesser PPM against the player who had less rating then you. Example:
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=21231059
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=21244449
In Aspirin case, his PPM is always higher then the players he plays against with.
Ex: http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=21320570
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=21163414
Le_Furet
10-07-2011, 23:31
Rating system is unfair (servers). I agree it's hard to make it very nice, but now I have stoped rating for this ; I lag extremly in F|A #2 (around 200 of ping and this .... of shoot lag), but around 30 ping in EU servers.
Good luck anyway :)
Btw AspiRin, MccLoud and Neon are very good players/raters. I think fix this would fix little troubles ;)
Good game/frag and don't forget : have fun!
Apspirin players on US server and you play on Euro server. Both chooses the server according to there pings.
I didn't say he was abusing anything, I just said he plays on a server where the vast majority of players have very bad pings, while he doesn't.
So if I have good PC and internet, I have unfair advantage?? I don't think it's called advantage. It's more like spending the money for better services.
Well technically yes you do have an unfair advantage. For casual play nobody cares about this, and in professional leagues (not public ladder leagues btw) players compete on the same kit over LAN.
I don't think ping should be considered because if player A is lagging then it's player A fault and not others.
Its not about punishing players for lagging, or having a good connection. Obviously you would have to estimate how much a ping of 300 hurts you, 800 hurts you etc and make a rough guess. In fact, it is not really possible to get this spot on, so a weak adjustment could be made to help a little bit.
Just saying it isn't the rater's fault is not an argument. It isn't the rater's fault that everyone else on the server has a rate of 0 or if they all get a PPM of 26. The point is to adjust for it to help reduce the effect of outside influences to make a more accurate rating system.
Where it will stop if we start considering ping? Then next one would say consider PC specs too. So we penalize player having good PC?
This is probably not even possible
I don't know whole maths of rating but one thing I noticed is:
Neon, you got -ve rating when you had lesser PPM against the player who had less rating then you. Example:
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21231059
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21244449
In Aspirin case, his PPM is always higher then the players he plays against with.
Ex: http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21320570
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...o&idx=21163414
What is your point? This has nothing to do with the discussion. Sometimes I play well, sometimes I don't. I'm not currently as careful as Aspirin is with my rate, which he is; he rates very infrequently and on the same maps, but this isn't a problem. I can do the same if I want, but atm I cba.
---
I don't want this to be taken as me whining that Aspirin is higher than me in TB, infact I actually explained this earlier. I just want the system to be as accurate as possible.
daredevil
11-07-2011, 04:36
I didn't say he was abusing anything, I just said he plays on a server where the vast majority of players have very bad pings, while he doesn't.
I simply mentioned he plays on US and you play on Euro i.e. both chooses server where they have low pings.
Well technically yes you do have an unfair advantage. For casual play nobody cares about this, and in professional leagues (not public ladder leagues btw) players compete on the same kit over LAN.
Its not about punishing players for lagging, or having a good connection. Obviously you would have to estimate how much a ping of 300 hurts you, 800 hurts you etc and make a rough guess. In fact, it is not really possible to get this spot on, so a weak adjustment could be made to help a little bit.
Just saying it isn't the rater's fault is not an argument. It isn't the rater's fault that everyone else on the server has a rate of 0 or if they all get a PPM of 26. The point is to adjust for it to help reduce the effect of outside influences to make a more accurate rating system.
Let me say this, this is not professional league and this are 'fun' servers. So 'ping' point is moot to begin with. No one ever said it's rater fault.
Weak or strong adjustment, point is adjustment should be valid and useful. System is not accurate and never will be because many factors play role. Everyone here wants to improve it but at the same time we don't want to over bloat it by adding new criteria/functions where there reliability is almost zero or even negative.
If you want to make it fair, put everyone in LAN with same PC and same hardware specs.
What is your point? This has nothing to do with the discussion. Sometimes I play well, sometimes I don't. I'm not currently as careful as Aspirin is with my rate, which he is; he rates very infrequently and on the same maps, but this isn't a problem. I can do the same if I want, but atm I cba.
My point was simple and very clear. From present stats what I see is Aspirin gets better PPM against any of his opponents, present on that map and hence his rating is higher. It has nothing to with ping. The reason I posted those links is because if anyone sees any coding error or calculation error they can point it out and then Paul can fix it.
To me it doesn't matter who plays good or bad or who rates seriously and who doesn't. It's player option/choice and I don't say anything on that.
-------
More or less players with bad network quality also adds lag on other player or else no admin would kick players with 500+ ping. Sometimes 250 ping doesn't cause much issue on server but a player with fluctuating ping of 50-150 with high packet loss can add more lag on server. So the thing which you see as advantage can also be seen as disadvantage to descent ping players.
My point was very clear like water. Adding ping doesn't solve any single thing and ping is not even accurate and ping even depends on network peering, hops and many other things. There are too much factors within ping and network itself.
Let me put it in laymen terms. You suggested ping should be added as one of the factor in rating and I suggested ping shouldn't be added because the reliability factor of ping is almost none. :)
I simply mentioned he plays on US and you play on Euro i.e. both chooses server where they have low pings.
Yes, you are kinda stating the obvious here, I assumed you were trying to make some kind of point beyond that. Of course Asp should play where he has a good ping, but one of the greatest mysteries of the universe is why FA#2 is full of players who choose to play with a ping of 150-200+.
Let me say this, this is not professional league and this are 'fun' servers. So 'ping' point is moot to begin with. No one ever said it's rater fault.
Saying the reliability factor is none is a MASSIVE overstatement. Would you expect to play better with a ping of 20, or a ping of 900? If the answer is yes, then you CAN make some reliable assumptions. Likewise, you CAN expect to perform better than others when you have a ping of 20, and they have a ping of 900. Saying performance has nothing to do with ping is extremely naive, especially for an experienced admin like yourself.
Also, I never said this was a professional league. My point was that nobody, me included, would go as far to demand we all play on the same system, as that is not a reasonable demand to make.
undefetable
11-07-2011, 14:19
Yes, you are kinda stating the obvious here, I assumed you were trying to make some kind of point beyond that. Of course Asp should play where he has a good ping, but one of the greatest mysteries of the universe is why FA#2 is full of players who choose to play with a ping of 150-200+.
yeah i feel the same but same happens with me because i play with 400 ping on fa2 where as i have 220 ping on fa3 still i play always on fa2 so i think fact of more players playing on fa2 with high ping is easier avabilty their to get good rate.
daredevil
11-07-2011, 20:08
Yes, you are kinda stating the obvious here, I assumed you were trying to make some kind of point beyond that. Of course Asp should play where he has a good ping, but one of the greatest mysteries of the universe is why FA#2 is full of players who choose to play with a ping of 150-200+.
Let me say this, this is not professional league and this are 'fun' servers. So 'ping' point is moot to begin with. No one ever said it's rater fault.
Saying the reliability factor is none is a MASSIVE overstatement. Would you expect to play better with a ping of 20, or a ping of 900? If the answer is yes, then you CAN make some reliable assumptions. Likewise, you CAN expect to perform better than others when you have a ping of 20, and they have a ping of 900. Saying performance has nothing to do with ping is extremely naive, especially for an experienced admin like yourself.
Also, I never said this was a professional league. My point was that nobody, me included, would go as far to demand we all play on the same system, as that is not a reasonable demand to make.
I like how you quoted my obvious answer which was explanation to your question and then you post it's obvious. Coming back to your point. Did I ever said, ping is not related to performance? My statement was very clear. Ping is not a reliable factor in 'rating/stats' because ping can be affected by many things.
Ping can be affected by many factors:
1. Player modem in itself.
2. Player router
3. Player ISP
4. Player location
5. Player packet loss.
etc etc
Then comes data center routing, set up, bandwidth, peering, network providers, etc. For you, "ping is not reliable factor in rating" could be massive overstatement but for me it's but obvious statement because I know how many thing's can affect the ping. You don't really need to be an experienced admin or certified network engineer to see this.
Why do you think EA multimillion gaming company doesn't include ping in there stats? http://bfbcs.com/ They can show your each weapon accuracy, kills, death, etc but not ping? The fact is even they know ping is not reliable factor when it comes to 'stats' or 'rating'.
Just to show you one of many basic example of how your home router affects the ping and packet loss. Many routers comes with setting of high TCP and UDP timeouts and low max connection limit. Once you start p2p sharing and create 500 connections, they will remain alive in router until timeout. Now lets say downloading is over on p2p but you start playing ET and if your router has low RAM and bad settings, you will see throttling on speed and higher latency then avg of what you get. Most of the kids don't understand how network, router, p2p, etc works and then it starts, oh I have 10Mbs download speed and still lag!!!! Well fact is they have more then 15% packet loss on there router itself.. in that cases even God can't help. This is just basic example.
Now if you go to data center networking, it works on peering, hops, switches, configuration, etc etc. ISP YYY from country B will have nice ping to datacenter A in country C but country X with ISP ABC will have pathetic ping and at the same time ISP XYZ from same country X will have nice ping. Why? Peering from ISP XYZ is bad to datacenter A or vice versa. It could be ISP issue, Hub issue, BW issue, line issue, etc etc. We are not at all considering here the things which player or any admin can fix.
Player A with ping 150 with 2% packet loss can play way better then the player B with 75 ping and 20-40% packet loss. More or less sometimes with high packet loss players are hard to hit because they start warping. So here player A is at loss cos he can't shoot player B cos of his shitty packet loss which results in warping.
Sometimes data center choose different path for peering i.e. it increases hop from US to Asia which results in less packet loss but little higher latency. In UDP you can deal with latency but if packet or snapshot is lossed, it's gone and you can't get it back.
Less ping with high packet loss = Major issue.
Avg ping with no or negligible packet loss = No issue.
High ping with no packet loss = Minimal issue cos of latency but if you are receiving all snapshots, all is good.
High ping with high packet loss = Results in admin kick.
I tried to explain you very basic things and if you still consider ping should be in add in rating calculation, you are free to believe what you want. Fact will remain same. It's not added since years and I don't think any decent coder will because any person who knows how latency is calculated and how many factors can effect it will tell ping is not reliable factor in stats. Show me any popular FPS gaming stats processing website where ping is added? As of yet, I haven't seen any for ET, COD series or BF series. There is a reason why it's not added.
If you don't believe what I said, my friend Google is your friend.
@undefetable - You play from across the globe i.e. from Asia(India) on US server. What do you expect? 100 ping? Please don't tell me about the quality of your ISP (Airtel) in Delhi because I know very well how it is. :) Speed and quality both sucks for airtel.
vodka.ru
11-07-2011, 21:52
This topic can take a Nobel Prize in Mathematics and Philosophy:w00t:
Respect:D
Svetlana
11-07-2011, 22:52
This topic can take a Nobel Prize in Mathematics and Philosophy:w00t:
Respect:D
no it cant because none of these wannabes knows what the hell hes talking about.
I think the meaning of this post went away.. i mean problem is fixed why still speak about that ? it's totally offtopics. Create an other thread about how to make rate or what you want but it's usless imo to speak more here.
undefetable
12-07-2011, 07:30
@undefetable - You play from across the globe i.e. from Asia(India) on US server. What do you expect? 100 ping? Please don't tell me about the quality of your ISP (Airtel) in Delhi because I know very well how it is. :) Speed and quality both sucks for airtel.
first of all i am not interested in ping because i have been playing with 300+ ping for 1.5 yrs so i am used to it i meant to say that people were talking that why high ping players play on fa2 even if they can get lesser ping on other fa servers its mostly because easy + rate avability there (ie 26 rate player gets + at 15 rate).
ping is of no discussion here and topic is being extended because it was just about aspirin and its now being extended ....
it went to 4 pages out of which 3 pages were off topic
undefetable
12-07-2011, 07:32
lolz it went to 4 pages shocking.............
There should be a change @ the formula , as Paul said ,
for calculation the averages should be taken without yourself.
There will be some test , and you will be informed in general TB news.
About US servers of EU , there is no difference , each servers/ players have the same process of calculation .It's impossible to modify settings for 1 server if something is changed it will be applied to all of them.
Please create another topic, because the last few post have nothing to do with the initial post.
/Topic closed
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