Good mouse for FPS games [Archive] - [forum.trackbase.net]

MiLkZz

15-05-2012, 11:19

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2024663

I say this... (great site, not only for this topic)

And get a optical one, even if they don't have 5700dpi (which is gimmick)
Be careful with setting the DPI they only work at certain DPI values. Even if you can raise it by 1 dpi at the time, it will still be pulled to the closed possible DPI value. Look up for what steps your sensor works optimal, for the g500/g9x you should take steps of 90dpi (is for all the avago 9500 sensors).

It's still optical > laser
Some optical mice: Deathadder 3G and 3.5G, logitech mx518, logitech g400, zowie am, ms intellimouse 1.1 and 3.0

STAY AWAY from the philips twin eye lasers, they are currently the biggest fail in mice history.

Last step is knowing which grip you have, palm, claw, fingertip,... Good tutorial can be found here: http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic

Others things you can consider are the center of gravity, position of the sensor, coating of mouse (slippery?), the gliders, position of buttons and click sensitivity of the mouse1 and mouse2 buttons. These are all less important though, sensor should make for the decision.

TL;DR get a mouse that fits your grip and don't look at DPI settings and all the other nonsense, just make sure the sensor in it is great.

Jari

15-05-2012, 19:55

5700+dpi wont work fine with ET,
idk why but its true ^^,
Anyways im also searching for a good keyboard & Headset
I tought about the new roccat what is coming out soon: http://power-grid.roccat.org/?page=hardware
About an headset, i really dont know what i want (only one importend thing i want an USB one cuz i wanna use it also for my ps3 hihi!)
atm i've got a shitty logitech keyboard and a shitty logitech headset:p

MiLkZz

16-05-2012, 03:35

just get a mechanical keyboard, cheapest will do. Rest doesn't matter.

I got a simple Sennheiser headset so can't help you there, just can tell you that I often don't hear
things :p. People swear at the logitech g35 though, never tested it, but it is expensive (100+ euros).

And they say that high DPI gives negative? (or positive, don't remember) acceleration.
But I tested it at various DPI levels, up to 5700 at different speeds, even tried the fastest I could do
and didn't notice the slightest acceleration. So I guess it is mouse dependent. I used the logitech g500.
Or the acceleration happens at speeds you wont reach with your arm+wrist or whatever, so it doesn't matter.

testforecho

16-05-2012, 12:30

And they say that high DPI gives negative? (or positive, don't remember) acceleration.
But I tested it at various DPI levels, up to 5700 at different speeds, even tried the fastest I could do
and didn't notice the slightest acceleration. So I guess it is mouse dependent.
It generally called negative acceleration (even if it's actually a maximum speed threshold, it's not an acceleration) and it's not mouse dependent. You have it with all mice (unless you use Linux + in_dgamouse 2 or directinput/rawinput on Windows, in that case you will never have any negative accel, with any dpi)

The fact that you can't see it with 5700 dpi can ony mean one thing, that is you weren't using 5700 dpi at all :)

Let me explain: what does 5700dpi mean? It means that if you move 1 inch on your mousepad you will move 5700 pixel on your desktop (which is a lot!). Only in that case you can really say you are using 5700 dpi. If you lower your windows (desktop) mouse sens, you are actually reducing your mouse dpi to a lower value. To have 5700 dpi, all setings should be in the middle notch (windows sens, setpoint, whatever). Then, and only then, you have 5700 dpi.

For example if your desktop resolution is 1920x1080, having 5700 dpi means 5700 pixels in 1 inch, that is 1920 in 0.33 inches, roughly equal to 0.85 cm (if I didn't make mistakes).
So, you can make your whole desktop with only 0.85 cm on your desk? If yes you have 5700 dpi, if not, then you don't (or maybe you mouse has 5700 'hardware' dpi, but you reduce them by reducing your windows sens)

That's why you hear every time bs about people saying 'I have 1 trillion dpi and my ingame sensi is 5' (which would be unplayable with such high dpi setting)
It's because they don't understand that, now I hope I explained it correctly :p

MiLkZz

16-05-2012, 16:17

What you say is true, but beside the point :p. I know I wasn't using 5700 REAL dpi. But still people
are saying that if you have more than 400dpi, you get negative acceleration in ET. Even if this 400 is
the real dpi, I still went way over it in my test without experiencing negative acceleration. So I doubt
that what people are saying is true.

And no, you don't have acceleration with all mice ;), I deleted every acceleration in windows, not just the
check box but also in regedit. And I am using a optical laser mouse without acceleration at the moment. So
I get a 1:1 aim.

I am playing with 3500dpi, just checked and it seems real because it takes me +-1cm to cross 1920pixels.
Windows: 6/11 and razer software: 10/10. (and to be honest I don't find the sensitivity high enough)
Ingame sensitivity: 2,55
Yea I am a high sensitivity player, I like to only move my wrist and rest my arm on the desk. But if I would
set my DPI to 400, I would need almost 30 sensi ingame. And the ingame calculator ain't that good, so you
better keep the ingame sensi as low as possible.

ps.: because the 10/10 in the razer software, it takes me 0.8cm to cross 1920 pixels.

Dragonji

16-05-2012, 16:54

I think I will probably order MX518, thanks for all your suggestions :)

The last thing, what mousepad should I get for this mouse? Will Steelpad QcK+ be enough?

MiLkZz

16-05-2012, 17:59

I think I will probably order MX518, thanks for all your suggestions :)

The last thing, what mousepad should I get for this mouse? Will Steelpad QcK+ be enough?

Google it, because it is tricky. My g500 worked on every surface, but my deathadder didn't work on a
soft pad and only on 1 side of my hard pad. So just google it to see if it has any issues on certain surfaces.

testforecho

16-05-2012, 18:45

[...] But still people
are saying that if you have more than 400dpi, you get negative acceleration in ET.
[...]And no, you don't have acceleration with all mice ;)
[...]And the ingame calculator ain't that good[...]

Ok let's clarify a couple of things:
- the so-called negative acceleration is due to this:
ET (I am talking about Windows, not Linux here) reads your mouse position every frame by calling GetCursorPos to read the position of your mouse cursor, then it calls SetCursorPos to set it back in the middle of your desktop, to read it again the next frame.
The difference is the amount of mouse move you did during that frame. (When you play you can't see your mouse cursor but it's still there, even if it's invisible).

The problem is, if you move your mouse arrow too fast during that frame (a frame lasts 1/125th of a second, if you play with 125 fps) the arrow can reach the edge of your desktop, and obviously you can't go past the edge, so the rest of your move will be ignored.
So you can move at most 1920/2 pixels in 1/125th of a second, not more. Pixels are then converted to degrees (see below).

This has nothing to do with your mouse, some mice have accelerations or other problems at some speeds or dpi, but this specific problem (namely negative accel.) is due to the way Quake3 engine reads your mouse position. So, with any mouse, if you reach the edge of your desktop during one frame (because of low fps, low r_mode/res, or high dpi) you will get negative acceleration.

I don't know what you mean by 'the game calculator' but the way the game calculates your movement is very simple I don't see a reason why it should be 'bad', ignoring m_filter it's just:
degrees in game = m_yaw * sensi * (pixels on your desktop)
(replace m_yaw with m_pitch for vertical moves)

Since the number of pixels is an integer, you obviously want to limit the movement by reducing your sensi, rather than reducing your windows or driver sens, but you have to find a balance if you want to avoid negative acceleration as well... anyway all this stuff is a bit overrated

MiLkZz

17-05-2012, 13:01

Nice post, didn't know that ET calculated your position like that. I suspected something like it though.
You cleared some things out for me. But, 1/125th of a second is kinda the speeds I am talking about :p.
Don't think I could reach those, maybe if I really try hard, but never in an ingame situation.

And I mean with the ingame calculator the sensitivity bar. Best thing here is to keep it as low as possible.
Think around 1 is best and to use the mouse drivers to calibrate your sensitivity. Or that is atleast what I
read in different topics. Only thing I am sure of is to NEVER EVER change the 6/11 window sensitivity.

But yea i know that the things we are talking about now are the absolute details and that they don't matter
that much. I am just a guy that likes everything perfectly in order up into the details :p. Every tiny bit of
advantage counts. But this is not something that would keep me out of my sleep. Or I would never blame a
death to this, that would be ridiculous.

Thanks again though to clarify, believe it or not, such things interest me :).

testforecho

17-05-2012, 17:40

Thanks again though to clarify, believe it or not, such things interest me :).
Lol I thought my post was boring... :p

Yes actually an important thing is not to have an ingame sens that is too high, I think anything over 3-4 can make you 'skip pixels', but the actual value depends on your cg_fov and resolution.

Since ingame degrees = m_yaw * sensi * (pixels on your desktop), and you can't move less than 1 pixel on your desktop (it's an integer), the minimum number of degrees you can turn depends on your sensi (m_yaw should be fixed to 0.022).

Taking account of your resolution and your cg_fov, you can turn degrees into pixels on your game screen. If your ingame sens is too high you can't 'aim at every pixel'.

So changing your sens using your mouse drivers (and keeping a somewhat low sensi in the game) is correct. And you are also right when you say that windows sens should be always 6/11.

Negative acceleration with widescreen monitors is a bit harder to get, if compared with the past when people played 800x600 or similar resolutions, and maybe they didn't even get always 125 fps, so it was much easier for the mouse arrow to touch the edge of the screen.

Scarhand

19-05-2012, 02:49

Its 800 DPI before negative acceleration occurs, not 400. And the polling rate also can have negative effect when high on a mouse, because if you get high enough FPS on a low polling rate mouse, it can remove all bullet spread increase due to mouse movement; but that requires like steady 250 fps on a traditional 125Hz polling rate mouse. For high tech 1000Hz, you can't get that effect.

ET was never designed for high tech mice. You just want good quality and condition for ET. That's why I like my razer diamondback 3g (set to 800 DPI) because it is nice feel, easy to click, and always responsive, without having a bunch of extra tech in it; great for ET.

I love how knowledgeable testforecho is.

MiLkZz

25-05-2012, 11:05

Yea I know the bullet spread reduction bug. Your mouse polling needs to be half of your FPS. So you need 2000fps for the 1000Hz polling xd.
Some people can reach this effect though :/, not sure what to think of it. I don't think I know anyone using it, so it's alright I guess.

Mellie

3-08-2012, 05:47

logitech G700 ;)

Shownie

3-08-2012, 11:39

mx518 enough said :)

Indeed a good mouse but if you buy it you make a mistake. Instead you should buy Logitech G400 since it is the NEW MX518. New engine and higher dpi. :)

Patriot

3-08-2012, 21:24

it dosent get better than this :) --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K78PO6?ie=UTF8&tag=oddee-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000K78PO6

i thought no one would ever reach the mx518, has had 2 and was damned pleased, but dealer didnt have one when last crashed so bought a G500, thats a solid replacement imo

like it

ibunforgiven

5-08-2012, 11:52

i use this : http://www.x7.cn/en/product.asp?id=36 , and i m absolutely sure there is only hype bout logitech.they are not only good company to manufacture a gaming mouse.is just pure hype,same for coca cola,mc donald,nike,adidas,etc etc.

Onni:]

5-08-2012, 12:03

I got Logitech MX518 but it's like 5 years old and ever-dirty so I'm buying Deathadder... To be honest I noticed this mouse's potential like half year ago, that's why I have now succes in ET I guess lol.

Ruben0s

5-08-2012, 16:40

I used both MX518 and Logitech G9(x). Both are good gaming mice but my preference would go to the g9. It's awesome in combination with acceleration. Low sens + acceleration in et = win.

testforecho

5-08-2012, 18:53

Low sens + acceleration in et = win.
I remember some years ago when I built my own config by comparing a lot of 'pro' players configs I had downloaded, none of them had acceleration

Aside from that, I don't see what the advantage of acceleration is. The only good thing about it would be having a wider range between fast and slow movements, but you pay for that when it comes to aiming quickly at somebody's head

Ruben0s

6-08-2012, 00:55

I didn't mean the command in ET.

I know ET has a command for acceleration, but it sucks really badly compared to the mouse driver acceleration, which feels a lot different than the ET config command.

It's hard to explain the pro's of acceleration, but once you get used to it it just feels like one smooth sensitivity. I love it, because I can switch really fast between targets, even if they are behind me, and that with the feeling of playing with a low sens.

testforecho

6-08-2012, 12:10

I didn't mean the command in ET.

I know ET has a command for acceleration, but it sucks really badly compared to the mouse driver acceleration, which feels a lot different than the ET config command.

In my opinion et's own acceleration is superior because it's not limited to an integer number of pixels, while any mouse driver accel will be limited by the fact that you can't move half a pixel on your desktop. And you can even reach the border of your desktop, so you would have an accel and a speed limit (a.k.a. negative accel) together. Not good imho.
In et, instead, you can move any amount of degrees and take advantage of decimals both in your sens and cl_mouseaccel number.

Of course, if the formula et uses for accel is 'inferior' to the one of your mouse drivers, or rather I should say if you don't like it, then the advantage of not snapping to single pixels goes away.

Personally, I prefer to move the same amount of degrees when I move x inches/cm on my pad, and that regardless of movement speed.
That is, I prefer not to play with accel because if I make a quick move I would have to control both speed and distance, without accel I need only to control distance, and that's easier for me.
Actually I don't even need to 'control', I 'know', which is a different process imho than moving your mouse then realizing how much you moved, and adjusting, it's not a feedback kind of prcess in your brain, but you know in advance you have to move 'x' to reach point 'y'. Of course your brain can eventually learn the speeds as well, and that's what probably happened to you.

If you add the effect of cg_fov, and the projection on a flat screen of the game's 3d world (the same distance in degrees is not the same in pixels, if you compare the middle part and the side of your screen), I think my brain has enough to do without accel already :P

Ruben0s

6-08-2012, 16:35

I don't know that much about mouse acceleration, but I can only tell that I really love it. At the beginning it sucked pretty hard, but once you get used to it you don't want to go back, atleast I don't want to go back. When I started playing ET it didn't matter to me if I played with a really high sens or a really low sens, I could handle both quite good. But I wanted to use them both in different situations, like high sens is really hard if the distance is big and low sens sucks if you get raped. With mouse acceleration I got the feeling that I have both low sens and a high sens, and everything in between. Of course there could be things like negative accel, but tbh I don't even know what it means and it never bothered me.

Spl@$h~

6-08-2012, 19:54

i use it too :) its good indeed but need some practice .
Et pro players will tell you its not good at all to get stable aiming and they are right too.

MiLkZz

7-08-2012, 05:54

I hate acceleration and moved heaven and earth to get rid of it. And after excessive testing I did :D.

-=Timmey GER=-

25-02-2013, 15:41

I use the mousen from cyborg R.A.T. 7 , here is a link : http://www.cyborggaming.com/de/prod/rat7.htm

nrgy21

8-03-2013, 01:04

MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
http://www.activewin.com/reviews/hardware/mice/intexplorer3/images/MS%20IntelliMouse%20Explorer.gif

gzzzvictory

17-04-2013, 11:43

I use the Razer Deathladder and it was defently a good choice :)

Immortalizt

26-05-2013, 05:03

I use R.A.T 3 and it works perfectly for me,,

3500 dpi - Gaming grade Optical Sensor
4 DPI Settings – Use the Rocker Switch to toggle between your DPI settings.
3 Programmable Buttons – Combine your Programmable Buttons with 2 regular left and right mouse buttons and give yourself a total of 5 buttons to punish the competition. Assign your choice of key gaming actions to Programmable Buttons to create your own custom profiles.
3 Cyborg Modes - Toggle between three individual R.A.T. modes at the touch of a button. Change sensitivity or Programmable Button actions in an instant and gain immediate access to a mind-boggling 9 commands!
Powerful ST Programming Software - Change your DPI sensitivity, create custom profiles for each game, and assign commands to your Programmable Buttons. Easy, quick and the power you need right on your desktop.

But theres also R.A.T 5, 7 and 9.

Very good products imo

dtec7

29-06-2013, 08:09

Death Adder 2013

Onni:]

30-06-2013, 16:24

Thermaltake Black Element
http://www.ttesports.com/productPage.aspx?p=16&g=ftr#.UdA_PvltZfc

Heaven

1-07-2013, 16:03

If you have a limited budget go for a Trust mouse ! Otherwise get a steelseries XAI, very nice for FPS games like CS or ET .

lunAa

19-07-2013, 10:32

Death adder here too :D perfect for small hands xD

Mccloud

21-07-2013, 04:13

using the same, deathadder 2013

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/5785/4345png.png

Mccloud @ Mcds

equaLz

23-07-2013, 17:06

using the same, deathadder 2013

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/5785/4345png.png

Mccloud @ Mcds
Playing a FPS on a laptop, W00T.

OT: I use the MX518 for like 2,5 years now, still the best mouse ever had, I hate the DA.

NightmAre

3-09-2013, 11:14

http://i.imgur.com/pQdkxcA.jpg

What I have always used :D

thegeneral

3-09-2013, 23:27

wow u play with that kind of mouse , tryed it onces but cant play with it .

i use logitech g9x mouse for years now

NightmAre

4-09-2013, 00:45

I started off with it so it didn't take me too long to adjust. Just kills your aim if you break a finger or something :D

thegeneral

4-09-2013, 02:36

haha that's true don't break your finger then :p

Papii

7-10-2013, 02:05

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i3OnT7JEEnk/Tc-OyfxxkQI/AAAAAAAAE6E/Z9MuSXtckSo/s1600/LogitechMouse-blk%5B1%5D.jpg

mine

Jari

7-10-2013, 19:14

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i3OnT7JEEnk/Tc-OyfxxkQI/AAAAAAAAE6E/Z9MuSXtckSo/s1600/LogitechMouse-blk%5B1%5D.jpg

mine

lol I had this too :P, such an awesome mouse.

Adrian

17-09-2015, 13:13

Razer DeathAdder :) best gaming mouse :)

#SAS#TASIOR

14-02-2016, 16:58

Its all depend==
Palm Grip
129
CLAW GRIP
130
FINGERTIP GRIP
131

How to choose the size of the mouse to the appropriate grip? (Comp is the only way to facilitate selection of the appropriate size for the disproportionate hand can not check)
To choose the best size of the mouse to your hand - set the thumb in the position of 90 degrees and measure the length from the end tip of the longest toe to the line that creates your thumb, as shown:
132

All info on this site http://www.test-gear.pl/gripy/ use translate or whathever :) like me xD
Dose it mather what is tha best mAuse ? xD mehh
ZOWIE :P win lel