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Paul
24-01-2012, 11:22
A revolution since the existance of Enemy Territory tracking, it would be best to name it after that =)
Months and months have been passed for it's development, a war with a lot of resistance from code that just loved to silly our brains was eventually won and therefore we can now present you this new rating method.:w00t:

As some of you already saw, 'TSP' has been added that is named after the TrackbaseSkillPoints. This new rating feature doesn't just calculates your xp per minute and rates the session on that, it includes hits/kills/engineer/battle sense/revives and more of those things. :ninja:

:arrowr:Note that you will only get sessions rated on TSP if the server supports it. You can recognise a server when it has K/D support and in the serverlist it'll have a orange number.:arrowl:

If you are a server admin and wish to get your server added to this system, you can send Paul (me) a PM or catch me on xfire for more information and the requirements.

If there are any questions, feel free to ask them!

Some (maybe) questions:
Q Will the old system disappear?
A: No, why not? Because the new system does not run on all servers! It will however be new the new standard, but you can rely on both just as much as you would like.

Adrian
24-01-2012, 12:59
great staff keep this up Paul :)

Patriot
24-01-2012, 14:07
@Paul: You still have the details i gave you for our servers? to get them added

envy_
24-01-2012, 16:08
Whats rewarded exactly? And how do you judge the stats of a great player?

Jari
24-01-2012, 16:12
they should do this for all servers, idk why only some servers got it;s

Paul
24-01-2012, 16:20
they should do this for all servers, idk why only some servers got it;s

Because we connect as client, and if the server is full we can't join, and can not make sure sessions get rated. Therefore we need a private password + a private slot set for 24/7 access. If server admins give that to us we can enable rating on that server :)

giriel
24-01-2012, 16:58
The discussion about that calculation was done in this topic : http://forum.trackbase.net/threads/723-OFFICIAL-W-ET-Discussion-new-rating-method

At the moment: (((headshots + hits / 5) + kills) * 1.5) + engixp + battlesence + revives*4

Onni:]
24-01-2012, 20:09
Nice, I like it ^^ It really tells about your skill

SergeXE
24-01-2012, 21:01
It's a nice addition to an already working system, hope to see one of the few popular public etpro servers use it or more silent servers. Good work Paul and TB staff :)

JoNny
24-01-2012, 21:12
Well done. this has taken so much time. Really a big thanks Paul & Giriel. :) :) :) :) :) :)

mrmuppet
24-01-2012, 22:08
Is this now working with all mods? As the previous issues with ETPub been resolved?

giriel
24-01-2012, 22:42
It should work on all mods, I have fixed the last bugs normally.

Scarhand
24-01-2012, 23:20
At the moment: (((headshots + hits / 5) + kills) * 1.5) + engixp + battlesence + revives*4

The headshots is not balanced. It takes more than double the shots to kill a person without headshots. Because headshots are only worth twice the value of a hit, you make more points killing someone with only bodyshots, which is the opposite of what it should be. You shouldn't give players lower rate for headshots.
Too bad acc isn't included too.

envy_
25-01-2012, 09:34
You shouldn't give players lower rate for headshots.
Too bad acc isn't included too.

I agree.

I mean most good players have a higher headshot accuracy, and i think headshot accuracy should be awarded more than bodyhits accuracy. Since its harder to shoot headshots (?)

You could easily aim for just bodyshots and get like around 50 acc, if you aimed for headshots the acc would drop with at least 6% or more i want to believe.

christmaspwns
25-01-2012, 10:36
Nice job, let's hope it actually works.

testforecho
25-01-2012, 10:50
The headshots is not balanced. It takes more than double the shots to kill a person without headshots. Because headshots are only worth twice the value of a hit, you make more points killing someone with only bodyshots, which is the opposite of what it should be. You shouldn't give players lower rate for headshots.
Too bad acc isn't included too.

hits are *all* hits, that is body+head, so hits+headshots = bodyshots + 2*headshots
and since (without adrenaline) a headshot makes 40-50 hp and a bodyshot 18, hits+headshot is roughly proportional to damage given (at least with mp40/thompson)

Accuracy? Players with a high accuracy are those who don't preshoot and don't gib, check for example some ettv matches where they have maybe 40 acc, while in public etpro servers the same players get 50 without even trying hard.
I can get 50 acc if I play for accuracy, but since I'm not a good player I won't get 50 if I play normally like those skilled players, so it's not a reliable factor imho.


I agree.

I mean most good players have a higher headshot accuracy, and i think headshot accuracy should be awarded more than bodyhits accuracy. Since its harder to shoot headshots (?)

You could easily aim for just bodyshots and get like around 50 acc, if you aimed for headshots the acc would drop with at least 6% or more i want to believe.
As regards the fact that headshots = skill, I don't agree. Imho damage = skill. Some players give many hs but have a poor accuracy, so they give less damage in the end.

You don't aim for the body or the head, you aim for the area that gives you the highest chance of giving damage, taken into account player distance and animation, weapon spread, etc.

Let's say you have rifle and your opponent is crouching and he's far, where do you aim? Head? I would aim at the bodybox

envy_
25-01-2012, 11:11
As regards the fact that headshots = skill, I don't agree. Imho damage = skill. Some players give many hs but have a poor accuracy, so they give less damage in the end.

You don't aim for the body or the head, you aim for the area that gives you the highest chance of giving damage, taken into account player distance and animation, weapon spread, etc.

Let's say you have rifle and your opponent is crouching and he's far, where do you aim? Head? I would aim at the bodybox

It's the combination of headshots and body shots which determines the good player, which situations u choose to aim for the head and which to aim for the body. Headshots is harder to shoot, skill or not its a fact, not fiction. So seeing headshots less rewarding seem strange to me. With bodyshots more rewarding the passive player have a higher advantage as he often stays on a wider range trough the games and therefore must shoot more body shots. Which gives the more close up player with probably better aim less advantage cause the 'combat' situations he plays in is less rewarding.

Just my thoughts..

giriel
25-01-2012, 11:19
Headshots are counted double so I think we have a higher reward for that? :)

Dragonji
25-01-2012, 12:35
I mean most good players have a higher headshot accuracy, and i think headshot accuracy should be awarded more than bodyhits accuracy. Since its harder to shoot headshots (?)
I think it would be unfair for other mods since everybody knows that Jaymod's hitboxes are big as hell, so you gain more headshots on this mod naturally.

testforecho
25-01-2012, 12:57
So seeing headshots less rewarding seem strange to me.
Of course headshots are harder, that's a fact and there is no need to discuss about it, but at the end of the day the damage you give counts, and that damage is (roughly) proportional to bodyshots+hs*2, that is hits+headshots, and that's exactly what you see in the formula.

So I don't see why you think headshots are not rewarded, since in that formula they are counted 2 times (remember that hits = bodyshots+hs).
Yes, I know a hs is slightly more than 2 bodyshots (because of the damage, and because you make it at once), but I don't see such a big mistake in that formula, if it's not 2, it is 2 point something, certainly not 3.


I think it would be unfair for other mods since everybody knows that Jaymod's hitboxes are big as hell, so you gain more headshots on this mod naturally.
I see 2 problems in your post, both big, I hope you don't get mad at my answer, because it's not meant as personal attack :P

1. hitboxes in jaymod are *not* bigger (you have many different hitboxes there, I know, but the ones generally used in servers are exactly the same as etpro hitboxes) you hit more because there are more beginners, and because with xpsave and level5 you have less weapon spread.

2. You say 'everybody knows'. Everybody = average et player = not a rocket scientist for sure. If 'everybody' says something then you shouldn't believe it without suspecting that it's bs.

For example a minute ago I was playing, and some retarded with noob aim said that I was unhit because I had a high ping, and he said 'everyone knows' that ping moves your hitboxes.

I said that it's bs, and that I was a modder, and instead he didn't know sh** etc. but he didn't believe me. I was about to decide to quit this sh*t game played by retarded people who just insult without knowing, actually since it was an etpro server I was surprised that I wasn't muted for what I said... :facepalm:

Scarhand
25-01-2012, 13:16
Say a player has 120 HP as an example
(All 100% acc)

Player gets all body shots: 120/18=6.6666=7 hits to kill.
0+7
7/5=points

Player gets all headshots (40 on first because of helmet, then 50)
120-40 on first shot, 80/50=1.6=2 shots
3 shots total
3+3
6/5 points

7/5 points for 0%hs
6/5 points for 100% hs

Spl@$h~
25-01-2012, 14:27
Look , we already talked about the formula, you can check the different topics , normally it's fair.
Let's just thanks Paul and Giriel for the amazing job they have done,and everyone else who participated to elaborate the formula .
Let's test the new formula on servers which already signed up to get that new tracking system on their servers and compare your (ppm / rating with the values of the old tracker)

New : http://et.trackbase.net/TSP/
(http://et.trackbase.net/toplist/)Normal : http://et.trackbase.net/ranking/

To get as many servers as possible using the new tracking system , feel free to post a note on ( websites,forums or whatever clans are using to communicate ) including the link of this tread , all infos they need are listed here :)

testforecho
25-01-2012, 14:37
@Scarhand:
That's correct, I can't deny your maths, I have already said that a headshot is slightly more than 2x a bodyshot, actually with adrenaline it's worth 4 bodyshots because adre halves the damage from bodyshots.

And in your example you should have also taken into account that the player with 7 bodyshots would be dead, and the other would get a kill :P (And that nobody gives all hs not even aimbotters, so your score difference is a limit that cannot be reached in practice)

So yes they could make hits+headshots*1.something, but the effect would be negligible, if it can be changed even now then why not.
(But at this point you should make it different for every weapon, because with rifle or sten your calculations would be different)
We discussed the formula in the other thread, I was aware of that imperfection but I thought it was about splitting hairs, if for you it's important you could have pointed it out before, even though maybe it can be changed even now

And while we are still discussing it, what about the xp from battle sense then, are we going to award so much campers who just camp and fragsteal behind their team mates to get killing sprees and survive, or we should remove/weaken it to award the players who have the guts to go and fight in the middle of the action?

Imho the formula is still improvable, but it is quite good as it is now, then if it's possible to still change it, the sooner the better or players who would lose rating will complain

giriel
25-01-2012, 14:56
If you guys think it could be perfected then I am open to suggestions :)
But please use this topic for such discussions : http://forum.trackbase.net/threads/723-OFFICIAL-W-ET-Discussion-new-rating-method

JoNny
25-01-2012, 15:02
+1 splash :)

thedeadman
25-01-2012, 17:36
Will a separate list be implied on each server with this new ranksystem? (next to player ranks - usage - ... )

orDian
25-01-2012, 17:55
3+3
6/5 points

Lets consider this Order of operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations)
(((headshots + hits / 5) + kills) * 1.5) + engixp + battlesense + revives*4
This means hits is first divided by 5. What you are doing Scarhand (http://forum.trackbase.net/members/2191-Scarhand) is adding headshots and hits together, and divide by 5.

To clear this up, lets only take hits, headshot and kills.

3 headshots, 3 hits, 1 kill
(((3 + 3 / 5) + 1) * 1.5)
3/5 = 0.6 //Hits divide by 5
0.6+3 = 3.6 //+3 headshots
3.6+1 = 4.6 //+1 kill
4.6*1.5 = 6.9

0 headshots, 7 hits, 1 kill
(((0 + 7 / 5) + 1) * 1.5)
7/5 = 1.4 //Hits divide by 5
1.4+0 = 1.4 //+0 headshots
1.4+1 = 2.4 //+1 kill
2.4*1.5 = 3.6

testforecho
25-01-2012, 20:08
Lets consider this Order_of_operations [cut]

probably Giriel mistyped it by mistake, afaik the formula was (((headshots + hits) / 5) + kills) *1.5


If you guys think it could be perfected then I am open to suggestions :)
But please use this topic for such discussions : http://forum.trackbase.net/threads/723-OFFICIAL-W-ET-Discussion-new-rating-method
:arrowu:

relic
25-01-2012, 22:59
great work as always TB...

SergeXE
25-01-2012, 23:44
I don't know if this has been addressed yet or not, I noticed a little bug for raters that are not in a clan/without clan tags. It doesn't show their skill ranking on their TB page, as you can examine my page for an example. Thanks :)

Scarhand
26-01-2012, 00:33
K/Ds are bugging again, I just got a 221 / 180 when it was like 70/25

Edit: Maybe its the server? I checked a server regular who seems to be getting 200+ kills when they shouldn't
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=playerinfo&idx=3035445

Edit2: The messed up kill ratios are interfering with TSP too, I went down with a 40+ TSP when the top player has been getting 20 TSP.

giriel
26-01-2012, 18:54
Thanks for pointing that out I'll look into it.

giriel
27-01-2012, 17:00
That should be fixed, also added something so that now even if you disconnect/reconnect all the stats you make during a map will be used.
If you find weird K/D 's somewhere please tell us !

SergeXE
29-01-2012, 20:04
That should be fixed, also added something so that now even if you disconnect/reconnect all the stats you make during a map will be used.
If you find weird K/D 's somewhere please tell us !

F|A Jay 2 has been having some weird K/D issues this past week since TSP got implemented. This is one example of a session that the numbers were bugging out.

http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=35995866

giriel
29-01-2012, 20:35
Srry about that, I was trying to fix the problem with people reconnecting but loosing their kills/deaths.
But it didn't work, have asked Paul to put the old one into service again.

SergeXE
29-01-2012, 21:53
The disconnect/reconnect and having your stats save is a nice idea and I have noticed it helped me with a few sessions, so hope you can work a solution for it. :)

testforecho
29-01-2012, 23:24
cool, but why do you disconnect in the first place :p

mirqli
30-01-2012, 00:38
Now that we have the new skill ranksystem, I have some suggestions:

Why not add players' TSP on the clan page next to the rate block, atm we must click our way to every player's details to see whats his TSP is, would be a lot easier to check it on the clan page.

Those player ranks on the clanpages should be replaced with the skillranks, I don't think people pay too much attention to those "XP ranks" anymore.

I think those Player toplist and Clan toplist on the front page should be replaced with the skill toplists or atleast they could be added next to those original lists.

Nice work with the new rank system though!

SergeXE
30-01-2012, 00:39
cool, but why do you disconnect in the first place :p

Well, most of the time it's the server having some strange hiccups and then I get dropped and I have to reconnect again, so it's definitely not intentional. =P

Scarhand
30-01-2012, 02:00
How about server rankings using TSP too?

detomaso
27-02-2012, 13:34
i dont know if im right here...the kills/deaths will be also active for NQ in the future?

thanks

Patriot
27-02-2012, 14:46
i dont know if im right here...the kills/deaths will be also active for NQ in the future?

thanks

It already is mate atleast if its the rating from TB you talk about

JoNny
27-02-2012, 18:17
If you want to play on a server where this should be enabled and available then you need to say the sa (server-admin) to contact paul for that, and you can play on such a server ;)

{WeB}*GANG$TA*
7-03-2012, 00:00
If there are any questions, feel free to ask them!

Paul, did you get the pm from {WeB}*DOG* relating to our server being added to the new rating system? Our server ip is:

213.108.31.165:27040

We are currently running ETPub mod.

Thanks.

TerrorTom
7-03-2012, 20:10
Hi.

Just realized a server I played recently has K/D stats enabled.

Seems the stats are bugged? It's a NQ 1.2.9 Server.
http://www.free-space.at/terrortom/wolfenstein/kd.jpg
I never could do this amount of kills.

Last map on Venice I had 112 kills and the xp from the "normal" rating is correct. Seems the TSP-Rating is 3 times higher.

There are more players with wrong k/d-stats.
Venice (http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=37857998)
Oasis (http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=37856941)
Baserace (http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=sessioninfo&idx=37855908)

giriel
8-03-2012, 17:09
those are some impressive scores.

If you see such stats please do \statsall in the console and see whether those values are correct.

Will investigate this, thanks for bringing it to our attention !

{web}*dog*
10-03-2012, 16:05
Are we to assume that there are teething troubles as both Gangsta and myself have had no response to have our server added to the trackbase points system...

Shagileo
10-03-2012, 18:00
Are we to assume that there are teething troubles as both Gangsta and myself have had no response to have our server added to the trackbase points system...

We're currently looking into this issue.
But bare with our devteam, it are busy times for them as well :)

We'll notify you when things are back on track. Thank you for your patience

Hy0...
10-03-2012, 23:41
Yeah I also had some incredible scores like 1200/115.. somthin like that ^^
Is that a trackbase bug or does it come from from Et?

{WeB}*GANG$TA*
6-06-2012, 17:12
We're currently looking into this issue.
But bare with our devteam, it are busy times for them as well :)

We'll notify you when things are back on track. Thank you for your patience

So, Shagileo, any joy with your rating system? Did you get the bugs sorted out and is it now operational?

MiLkZz
6-06-2012, 20:32
If you mean TSP, yes it is operational and it seems to work pretty nice.
I really like it more than the regular rating.

tacin
5-08-2012, 18:23
Hello,
I sent a PM to Paul, but he didn't answer...
I'd like to add my server to the TSP rating. IP of my server: 79.133.192.44:27994 (TB server info (http://et.trackbase.net/?mod=serverinfo&idx=37540)).
What about requirements? I've got private slot, which I can provide - I know this is necessary. But what's next?
Regards.

JoNny
5-08-2012, 21:14
Hello,
I sent a PM to Paul, but he didn't answer...
I'd like to add my server to the TSP rating. IP of my server: 79.133.192.44:27994 (TB server info (http://et.trackbase.net/?mod=serverinfo&idx=37540)).
What about requirements? I've got private slot, which I can provide - I know this is necessary. But what's next?
Regards.

I guess, we got a better and more efficient method for you, which still provides the same features and more, this method is out of developing, i guess..

Try downloading this (http://filebase.trackbase.net/et/server/et300) or that (http://filebase.trackbase.net/et/server/et300.x86) file, and use it as your etded.(x86) | READ ME! (http://filebase.trackbase.net/et/server/et300_README.txt)

Regards,

tacin
5-08-2012, 21:25
After all, my server version is ET 3.00 - TB 0.6.6 linux-i386. You can read this at the server info page (click (http://et.trackbase.net/?mod=serverinfo&idx=37540)). What's next?

Phun
5-08-2012, 22:02
Damn hell of job mate!

I just wonder how you guys came up on this :p?

giriel
6-08-2012, 09:09
After all, my server version is ET 3.00 - TB 0.6.6 linux-i386. You can read this at the server info page (click (http://et.trackbase.net/?mod=serverinfo&idx=37540)). What's next?

I have enabled it :)

tacin
6-08-2012, 12:40
Thanks mate. :)
But there is a bug. Look at server info (http://et.trackbase.net/?mod=serverinfo&idx=37540).
Everyone is soldier and has 0/0 stats. What's wrong?

JoNny
6-08-2012, 13:05
i'd check the right bottom, there it says your server is down, is it down atm?

giriel
6-08-2012, 13:47
I have changed it back to the old method, I thought it would work out of the box but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Will need to wait till Paul can help you further :)

tacin
8-08-2012, 16:15
Still waiting....

Zaintkb
15-08-2012, 15:12
I have added the new server version to one of my servers: http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=serverinfo&idx=41681

The next step is for tsp to be logged and other info like whether players are soilder or medic etc and I want the server to be listed as Protocol: ET 2.60b / ET 2.55. It currently lists as only: Protocol: ET 2.60b, how can this be fixed? The server does allow players from 2.55 version to join now but I had to set sv_protocolcheck to "0". The installed binary is et300 and only extra setting currently active is +set net_port_extra 27961 in the command line.
I'll pm paul in the meanwhile about setting up tsp for my server, but I got no reply yet from my last pm about tsp? I'm sure he's busy though, I'll wait.

JoNny
15-08-2012, 15:16
yea, paul / giriel have to enable it in the cp also, just then it works with player information, e.g. playing as soldier, etc,
paul is busy atm, so giriel will probably make it soon for you

Zaintkb
15-08-2012, 19:46
Thx Jonny for the info, the server is up and running correctly with it providing real time information. I guess maybe paul / giriel enabled tsp or it happened auto? Only one question which I saw posted by leader of Uce clan, about the ET 3.00 servers producing a banner asking users to update their client to 2.60. I am not able to find that post by Uce leader, so I have to repeat, can I disable the update banner on this server version, for players who do not know how to update their client or don't want to for some reason?

JoNny
15-08-2012, 20:05
yea, it's enabled now, prob by giriel!
No you can't
this is inside of your server .x86 file set-up and this is quite useful, for users who don't know we have this (http://et.trackbase.net/update) site.
Hope your questions are answered with that:)

Zaintkb
16-08-2012, 13:12
Hi again, I like the new server version, so I have installed it on another server. Can it be enabled to log TSP aswell please. The servers trackbase page is here: http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mod=serverinfo&idx=41598. Do I need to dedicate a private slot for the TSP and stats to work? Thanks.

tapir76
14-09-2012, 17:10
Hello
I have a server 2.60b. I installed the patch ET300, I added extra port.Serwer is visible in both versions of the game but players can get version 2.55.
Server version: ET 3.00 - TB 0.6.6 linux-i386
Protocol: ET 2.60b only.
What am I doing wrong or what I did? I would also like to add at a later date TSP but do not know what is needed for that.
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...info&idx=41508

JoNny
14-09-2012, 17:27
Hello
I have a server 2.60b. I installed the patch ET300, I added extra port.Serwer is visible in both versions of the game but players can get version 2.55.
Server version: ET 3.00 - TB 0.6.6 linux-i386
Protocol: ET 2.60b only.
What am I doing wrong or what I did? I would also like to add at a later date TSP but do not know what is needed for that.
http://et.trackbase.net/index.php?mo...info&idx=41508

As i understood you want to let users with 2.55 connect to your 2.60b server only, normally you need to delete mp_bin.pk3 , pak1.pk3 , pak2.pk3 from your etmain folder to be able to let users from all versions connect.

If you want to have Real Time Information, you need to contact paul @forum or @xfire (forum: Paul , xfire: trackbase)

tapir76
14-09-2012, 18:15
Ok Thanks